Where the Boys Are
*** This two-year-old post has recently attracted a lot of media attention. To be honest, it’s attracted attention on and off since I wrote it, usually by male caregivers who are hurt by my comments. It wasn’t until this recent round of linkage that I went back and read what I’d written with enough distance to see where the post went wrong. I winced a little at some of my strong wording, things I would not have said as a growing changing person who’s two years further along in her parenting journey. To preserve the integrity of the many articles that have linked here, I will leave the original post intact but will take the opportunity to provide some clarification and commentary in italics along the way.
Two years later we have occasionally used male sitters, the kids have had male teachers at church and in swim lessons. We have enjoyed them. As with our female sitters, we make decisions on a case by case basis. We’re very careful and we follow our feelings. There are female sitters we choose not to use for various reasons but more often than not our one-on-one child care choices lean towards females.
I know it’s possible that my biases and opinions are hurting America and damaging my kids and I wish I had a magic wand to poof myself to perfection as a parent and human being. In the end, I do my best with the knowledge I have and I always strive to be kinder, do better and learn more.***
About a month ago, I went to the gym. Do I look thinner to you? Yeah, me neither. I dropped the kids off at the practically free childcare center with the sweet-looking rosy-cheeked female employee.
***I was familiar with the female employees and had used them in the past. I did not have a chance to make a decision in advance on the male babysitter or even meet him because he was switched in with no advanced notice.***
When I came back from working out, the young woman was gone and in her place was an equally rosy-cheeked sweet-looking teenaged boy, which would have made me nervous anyway since we have made the decision not to hire male caregivers to watch our children. However, what really bothered me was that in the room with my two children was this boy and his shirtless friend with his low-rise pants and boxers sticking out about 5 inches.
***Part of the emotion in this post stems from the fact that I returned to find my 2 children, one an infant, alone with two strangers, one who was not even authorized to be there.***
Fashion decisions aside, I felt very uncomfortable with my two children alone in a room with two teenage boys I did not know and who I was not informed would be watching my kids, one of which was not even authorized to be there (I’m not sure if he was a fellow employee or just a random friend and I don’t much care.).
I sort of froze up, took my kids and left. I did not return with the kids for a few weeks. I think you can imagine the detailed discussion I had with Laylee on the way home about the boys and what had gone on. Did they touch you at all? Did they tell you any secrets? Mir recently did an amazing post about secrets I think everyone should read.
***Yes, I asked my kids about their experience that day at the daycare because of the strange circumstances. I do not make it a habit to question them every time they’re alone with another adult, male or female, nor do I think it’s a good idea to freak them out like that. This is something we talk about periodically in general terms to teach them what kind of touching is okay and what kind is not and to help them know what to do if they ever find themselves in a compromising situation.***
So last week, I decided to take Laylee and Magoo in again and tell the gym employees how uncomfortable I had been. They immediately jumped on the fact that someone who was not employed with them had been in the childcare area. This was apparently completely against their policy. They started going through the logs to see who was working at the time.
They apologized repeatedly and assured me that this was not going to happen again.
Then I dropped the gender bomb. “In general, we have a family policy against leaving our children alone with men.” They looked uncomfortable. There was another young man in charge of the childcare that day. I went in and met him, thought about the situation and decided to leave the kids for the half hour, following a serious talk with Laylee about appropriate touching (meaning none at all in this case) and that she should scream like the dickens if anything happened that made her uncomfortable.
***”Dropping the gender bomb” in this setting was not okay. If my family has a gender-biased policy, it is not appropriate to impose it on other people and not legal to ask that it be instituted in a business setting. Our original NO MALE decision was made largely because there was a certain boy we were not comfortable with who was frequently being offered to us as a babysitter. Considering the way we felt about this one boy and the statistically higher chances of a male being an abuser, we decided to make a blanket policy so we didn’t have to say, “Her son is okay but we just feel icky about yours.” This may be a cop-out but it felt like the right decision for our family at the time.
Going forward I have also avoided reminding the kids about appropriate touching 5 seconds before dropping them off at the door with ***
In further discussion, the manager pointed out that the rooms do have “large” windows in them. I’d call the windows “smallish” and “tinted” and I pointed out that the childcare area is located in the back corner of the gym and all the workout machines face the opposite direction. A female employee, one who had watched the kids in the past and seemed to be enjoying working at the front desk, said that they tried to keep the girls in the childcare area but that the guys had to take a turn too.
I understand why she’d feel that way. It would be way more fun to be greeting people at the front desk and cleaning up machines than watching some random snot-nosed little kids in the back room. They also reassured me that all of their caregivers had clean background checks, were CPR certified and first-aid trained. I basically said I was okay with it as long as they were trained to do what they needed to do and were not going to do what they shouldn’t.
Background checks give me very little reassurance. Yay! None of them have been caught yet. Hopefully none have even offended. But, there’s always a first offense and small children are easy prey.
***I cannot state strongly enough that I DO NOT THINK ALL MEN ARE CHILD MOLESTERS. I love men. GASP! I’m even married to one. I trust him. I trust a lot of people, male and female. I still think that relying on background checks when choosing a childcare giver is next to useless.***
As I was leaving, the front desk clerk remarked that she understood that there is a stigma about male childcare workers. I responded that it is not just a stigma. It’s a statistic. A child is nearly 19 times more likely to be molested by a male than by a female.
***The above paragraph is harsh and makes me wince. The truth is, I don’t care about stigmas and stereotypes. Each person is different and should be judged on their own merits. That said, the massive disparity between the percentage of male vs. female molesters is frightening. THAT being said, even with 95% of offenders being male, it’s still a miniscule percentage of males who offend. I know that by ruling out male babysitters, we would eliminate some of our children’s opportunities for having positive experiences with men and especially for Magoo to have positive nurturing male role models. However, I hope there will be plenty of other opportunities for this that do not involve leaving my children ALONE with men, particularly men whom I don’t know well. They will get positive experiences with males through spending time with well-known and trusted relatives and caregivers, with teachers and group childcare providers. When I wrote this post, I did not even think about male teachers in the category of childcare providers. I was writing about situations where one or two children are alone in an isolated place with men. I would be pleased for my children to have a male teacher in the classroom.***
We have some great male friends who we’d love to have watch our kids, but there will be days when we have someone offer who we just don’t feel right about. We find it easier to make a blanket policy and weed out 95% of our chances for problems.
I will be contacting the fitness chain owner to discuss the situation. I think it would make sense for them liability-wise to use only female caregivers, to install some fitness equipment looking into the room for vigilant parents or change one of their CNN flat-screens to a live feed of the childcare room. Any of these would help reduce the risk of tragic problems for the children and the staff.
***Again, I acknowledge that using only female caregivers as an institutional policy is not fair or legal and should not have been presented as an option.***
You may be sitting there right now saying, “I have the sweetest 15 year old son and he’d do a great job babysitting. How sexist of you!” To that, I’d have to answer, “When my sweet boy is a teenager, I will not let him baby-sit for other people’s children, for his own protection.” An accusation, even one that is later proven false could be life-destroying.
***A dear friend who was an amazing man who loved and worked with children (yes I think it’s possible and wonderful for men to love working with children and having that desire does not make them creepy pedophiles.) was falsely accused of sexual molestation. It destroyed his life and even though the accuser later admitted to making the whole thing up, his career and much of his life was ruined. I do not want my son to think that I suspect him of being a molester if he wants to babysit. Sadly though in the world we live in I do think there are far safer ways for teenage boys to make money.***
I am also very clear on appropriate touching within our family and no matter how much I trust or love my family members, I want my kids to know that if it feels uncomfortable to them, it is NOT OKAY, even coming from relatives, one of the groups most likely to be offenders. If Laylee or Magoo are ever molested by a trusted friend, an uncle, aunt or a sibling, I want them to know they can come to me and I will believe them.
Mir brought up a really good point when we were talking about this the other day. When we talk with our kids about appropriate touching, we need to be sure to include that it’s also inappropriate for people to ask to be touched on certain areas.
I know that I cannot, as a parent, prevent anything bad from ever happening to my children, but I CAN reduce their risk and talk to them openly so that they’ll be comfortable coming to me if something does happen.
***The older my kids get and the more I trust their abilities to communicate with me about what’s going on in their lives when I’m not there, the more I feel comfortable letting them leave the nest with less bubble-like protection. When I wrote this post, they were 3 and 1, hardly able to stand up for themselves and in much greater need of hyper-vigilant parenting.***
An excellent book on this subject, which came highly recommended by Karli and I’m really impressed with what I’ve read so far, is Protecting the Gift: Keeping Children and Teenagers Safe (and Parents Sane) by Gavin de Becker.
The author is a survivor of child abuse and is currently a leading expert in predicting violent behavior, working with clients including the CIA and the US Supreme Court.
***To answer one angry recent commenter, no I am not trying to pass myself off as an expert with ties to the CIA. The above sentence refers to Gavin de Becker, the author of Protecting the Gift.
In the end, parenting is hard and rough and wonderful and there are so many decisions we have to make every day that will affect who our kids become. We won’t always make the right ones for our kids. I know I don’t and I certainly don’t claim to have the ability to make the right choices for your family.***
reasons: harvest moon rising over the tree-tops on our hill, Magoo waving frantically every time a car starts its engine
Tess Says:
*wild applause* way to stand up to the gym employees. I hope you have not one bit of guilt or embarrassment ever about that.
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Posted on September 6th, 2006 at 11:11 pm
Nicole Says:
This is such a frightening issue. Good for you for talking to the management.
I was going to reccomend that very book! It is excellent and every parent should read it. Another fabulous resource for talking to your kids about appropriate touching is the Good Touch/Bad Touch program http://www.goodtouchbadtouch.com/. They have some good resources for parents, and a great in school program too.
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Posted on September 6th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
The Lazy Organizer Says:
I also agree. I have an 8 year old son who absolutely adores babies and especially his own 1 year old sister. My husband and I have discussed the posibility that he will never babysit her or be alone with her when he is older. We just don’t want to put either of them in a bad situation.
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Posted on September 6th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
jeana Says:
I think what bothers me just as much if not more than the being in there is the statement that “everyone has to take a turn.” That tells me that no one is hired for the specific purpose of watching the kids and no one really wants to do it.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 4:35 am
Cyntastic Says:
Out of curiousity what is your family’s policy on male family members watching your kids alone? Uncles, Grandpa’s, Cousin’s?
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 6:33 am
wendy Says:
I’m just impressed that you were able to discuss this rationally with the gym manager. I get rather flustered and lame when I am feeling strongly about something….
I’m not sure that I would NEVER hire a male babysitter. But I would be weirded out about it at a gym.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:10 am
abc momma Says:
I love the idea of the live feed from the childcare to one of the TVs. And I agree with Jeana–someone should be hired for the specific purpose of childcare.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:20 am
Erin Says:
I’m glad you did what you did. It can be difficult to stand up to your conviction and for your children in a situation where we don’t know the people. Thanks for making us a little more braver by your story.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:24 am
chilihead Says:
I was thinking exactly what Jeana commented on. Why isn’t there someone hired specifically to watch the children? This should be someone’s sole job.
Our gym is laid out somewhat the same way: you can’t see the nursery from where you work out or play tennis, there are no closed-circuit TVs. I don’t use the nursery b/c my kids are too old and go to school, but I wouldn’t even if they didn’t. I looked at several gyms in our town before joining one and I noticed that at every single one the nursery was an afterthought. Why is this?
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:26 am
Thoroughly Mormon Millie Says:
This really used to bother me, the no-males-babysitting thing. I thought it was sexist too. Our Primary presidency in a previous ward made the decision not to call any male teachers, which my husband and I thought was completely ridiculous. Men are all pigs, right? They’re all going to molest your children, right? But now that my kids are older and we’ve realized that yes, it does even happen at church (as sickening as that is), absolutely I agree. Bri is one of two team teachers right now and I agree, it’s more about appearances than anything.
I love that you stood up to the gym staff and made suggestions which I hope they will take, and I also loved Jeana’s comment. Child care is not a priority to this gym. Until it becomes one, I wouldn’t be taking my kids there.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:27 am
geminishadow Says:
My husband and I also say no to male caregivers. We have many very dear friends who we trust to the end of the earth, but would never leave alone with our child…..its just best not put them in the situation……..Meanwhile….the problem the gym has is, while I think most parents agree with us, they can’t not hire someone for the position based on the fact that they are male. Thats sexual discrimination. And even though….as a liberatarian, I say, The government has no right to tell me who I have to hire to take care of these small wonders, unfortunetly the laws are the way they are. But keep fighting the good fight!!! you never know what will happen!
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:30 am
Shannon @ Rocks in my Dryer Says:
I’m with you on this. We don’t let men watch our kids. We even make sure soccer coaches/karate instructors are never alone with our kids. If I’m accused of being sexist, I don’t particularly care, if it means that the odds are higher that my kids are safe.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:41 am
misha Says:
“…….we need to be sure to include that it’s also inappropriate for people to ask to be touched on certain areas.”
Yes, very important.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:55 am
kristin Says:
While I don’t share your same stance about male caregivers, I do (because I guess I am a bit hypocritical) agree with your posistion about not letting your teen son sit for other kids… I don’t plan on letting my boys do any babysitting for the same reason.
I commend you for standing up for what you believe in and really, shouldn’t there just be a full time childcare provider? At least during the most trafficked hours… like 10am-3pm.
Keep us posted, this is a very timely and eye opening topic.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:59 am
Darlaina Says:
Once again… you’re in my head! My 7-year old is back to school and my 5-year old started kindergarten. Now I’ve just got the 2-year old home, so I thought — what better way to spend the morning than at the gym! I was actually just going online to look up the local gym’s childcare policies and decided to read my favorite blogs first. Imagine my surprise when your post is about gym childcare. Now I have some solid questions to ask when I check it out. It never occurred to me that a place wouldn’t have employees specifically hired for childcare! Luckily the gym I’m planning to join is brand new and apparently planned for childcare from the get go. The child care room is right in the entry area of the building and has two walls that are completely glass. I still think the closed circuit tv idea is fabulous. And I want workers who enjoy working with children, not people who are forced to work there as part of their shift.
About the boys and babysitting part… thank you for putting into words something that has always bothered me but I was afraid to talk about for fear of being viewed as sexist. The ‘no boys babysitting policy’ is smart and now that I know someone else has implemented it, I don’t feel so bad about using it myself. I worry about these things constantly but feel sometimes like I am the only one and am extreme or overreacting. For instance I am very uncomfortable about men teaching my children at church or school, but when you talk to the “old school” set” they don’t seem to see the problem. The statistics you listed are helpful in backing up my concerns. I will definitely check out the book that you mentioned, too. I have been tentative about talking to my children about this… not wanting to say too much and make them scared of everyone. Hopefully this will help.
Thanks again for reading my mind : ) and offering new insights on subjects so relevant to my life!
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 8:08 am
SwellG Says:
If this is the new position most people are taking -one which I completely understand but am not sure if I am entirely on board with yet, is anyone worried about what we are saying to boys-who then become men- about their ability to properly care for children? What else can we do to teach our boys how to become great fathers if we don’t even allow them opportunities to take care of their own sibilings? I’m serious about this. Everytime we make a choice to not do something, we always need to way the costs of not doing that something with the benefits. I realize we are talking about our children’s saftey here, but taking this no boys rule taken to the extreme seems to have too many “costs” for me.
That said, I would have also felt uncomfortable with dropping my kids off with boys at the gym. At my gym, there are always two babysitters (I think for their own protection mostly) and would have been okay if one was a boy. I did also suggest to my gym that they should install a closed circuit television so parents can see what is going on. It is just a good idea these days. I think there are many other safegaurds we can try to put into place before we cut all boys/men out of all child care situations.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 8:25 am
Julie Says:
Great thoughts. Our gym is opening next month and the child fun center looks spectacular but I’m going to give them a call today and see what kind of policies they have. Our church has some definite policies in place like men can’t change diapers, at least two people must be in every class. Married couples can’t work a class alone, one other person must be there, etc. Oh, and thorough background checks of all our children’s workers. You can never be too careful and it’s for their protection as much as the childrens.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 8:53 am
Kirsten Says:
I do applaud you for your strength in voicing your opinion and sticking to you and your husbands convictions on this matter. But I do have one question–If you intend to have your children in the school system, does this mean that you would not want your child to have a male teacher?
My husband and my father are both elementary school teachers and I cannot tell you how frustrating it is when I hear people talk about how if a man is gifted enough to work with young children then he must be some kind of a pervert.
My husband goes to great lengths to make sure that he is never with a child in a situation that could even look remotely suspicious and yet there are times when he might need to *gasp* hold a child’s hand to guide them somewhere and comfort them when they are injured or upset.
Some of these children have absent fathers and they crave the male guidance and example that both my husband and my father can give to them. It would be a shame if these children never experienced that kind of love in their lives.
I’m sure you expected a little controversy on this issue– hope I didn’t come off as harsh. But I really believe that our children benefit from interactions with both female and male adults.
You are right– it is mostly men who commit these horrible crimes against children, but it is also wrong to assume that every male is a criminal.
How about this– a large proportion of violent crimes are committed by minority men. Does this mean that all minorty men are criminals? No, of course not. Shouldn’t the government support racial profiling? No, your race does not make you a criminal and neither does your gender.
Thanks for letting me share my opinion along with everyone else. I’d just hate to think that people see my husband or father as a possible child molester simply because they enjoy working with children.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 9:04 am
allysha Says:
Good for you. I was just having a discussion about this with my parents a month or so ago. My dad is in an ecclesiastical position where he has dealt with situations like this with adolecent boys, many of whom are normal kids put into seemingly benign but dangerous situations. There are just issues that arise as puberty hits and hormones are going wacko.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 9:06 am
Steve Says:
At my gym, the closed circuit tv feeds are only in the cardio theater and the new “women’s workout” area that just opened up. They don’t have any in the basketball courts, racquetball courts, the pool, or the free weights area. There’s an unspoken assumption that either men don’t drop kids off at the daycare or don’t care how they’re doing. I take my four year old daughter with me to the gym to give my wife a break, and I’m concerned that I can’t watch her most of the time.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 9:20 am
Thoroughly Mormon Millie Says:
In response to SwellG’s comment: My oldest is an almost-14-year-old and he’s been babysitting his younger siblings for years. While I completely trust him and think it’s a good experience for him, I will not allow him to babysit others’ children and subject him to any possibility of being accused of ANYTHING. It makes me sick to say that about my baby boy, but it’s the safe thing to do.
My husband grew up the youngest of two children, and is an awesome father even having had almost no experience with babies or young children. I don’t know that having your boy babysit other children (other than his siblings) will better prepare him for fatherhood.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 9:21 am
The Daring One Says:
Jeana - I feel a little lame that I didn’t even think about that. There should be people who are hired specifically for childcare. I need to look into that more.
Gemini - I know that you’re right. Legally, they cannot discriminate by gender. That’s what makes this whole situation so difficult. I wonder, with the increased risk of male offenders, could they make a legal case for child protection, rather than sexism? Probably not.
SwellG - I love the idea of having 2 babysitters at a time, for their own protection. My feeling is, the childcare is likely just a last-minute add on to boost gym membership, not a huge priority. I wonder if they’d have the resources to do that, considering the huge cost of childcare.
I LOVE what SwellG has to say about what we’re saying to boys about their abilities to care for children/be nurturers. It is definitely a huge problem in this new culture of “better safe than sorry.” I haven’t fully worked out how to do this. I think it helps that their dad is physically and verbally affectionate and very involved in the nurturing aspects of parenting, comforting when they are sad, encouraging them, etc.
I think another thing is to encourage them to care for their siblings and others when parents are around and give them chances to watch our children.
Cyntastic - We are just careful in our decisions about family members watching the kids. We have built up years of trust and experience with several of our male family members that we just won’t ever get with the boy next door. So we do let them stay with trusted male relatives, including hopefully our sons in the future.
That being said, the statistics also say that family members are among the most likely to be offenders. I would be more likely to leave my child alone with a male family member who had been appropriately nurturing with me as a child than with a cousin or uncle who was new to the family.
Children need to learn to trust people in their lives and, in a culture that shouts that men should be free from childrearing and other domestic duties, it would be a shame to further that misconception.
I will keep reading the book and see what the experts have to say on all this stuff. The main point of the book is to follow your instincts. (I think of this as following the Spirit.)
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 9:31 am
The Daring One Says:
Kristen - thank you for your excellent comment. I have had some wonderful male teachers in my life and I would not want to deprive my children of that opportunity to learn from a man who truly cares about children. It is sad that going into teaching is such a risky profession for men these days.
I don’t think of teaching as childcare so this one hadn’t occurred to me, but after meeting the teacher and getting to know them, I would be okay with that. A teacher (male or female) should never be alone with a single child and if they ever were, I’d expect the teacher and my child to tell me about the exception.
In the gym daycare scenario, the caregivers are often alone with just my children, one of whom is an infant.
I think communication and following feelings should be key in these situations.
Honestly, as a male, I’d be terrified to take on the role of teacher or childcare provider.
I think it’s interesting that you bring up the racial profiling issue. When I wrote this post, I thought of that exact line of thought and wondered if someone would bring it up. Of course not all men are child molesters. That doesn’t mean I won’t be extra careful with males. If that’s gender-profiling, so be it.
If we got to a point where white women were responsible for 95% of violent crimes in America, I think I would start to look at white women differently, even being one. I guess that would make me racist against myself.
I hope that men are also be actively concerned about their children’s welfare and will take a leading role in protecting their own children and the children they care for. I hope your husband, along with all teachers, has a plan in place to deal with a situation where he suspects one of his students is being abused, neglected or molested outside the classroom.
You said that you’d “just hate to think that people see my husband or father as a possible child molester simply because they enjoy working with children.”
I think that we need to see all people as possible wonderful amazing influences who can teach us and our children great things. I also think that considering the gravity of the problem, we need to consider that all people in our children’s lives are potential child molesters.
We can’t live by fear or by statistics, but we can live with our eyes wide open.
Another side note - Dan, the sweetest man in America, does not drive our babysitters home alone and he does not watch other people’s children alone for his own protection from false accusations.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 10:01 am
tftcarrie Says:
Wow, this is a really tough subject. I always have this internal struggle with doing everything I can to protect my children from all the bad in the world and the high costs of being overly cautious in any situation.
I would have felt the same way in your situation at the gym and would have voiced my concerns no doubt. But based on the statistics, it seems leaving my children with strangers would actually be safer than leaving them with a family member. So what do you do with that? I do not want my children to live a life where they are taught to be suspicious of all men. I don’t want to live my life that way either-viewing all men first as a potential child molesters. I think it is hard to make a blanket statement like no men/boys are allowed to care for my children without that being the implied reasoning. I don’t really know where I stand on this one. Like I said, I am torn. I can’t figure out if adopting such a rule is being a “good” parent or an overprotective one.
I agree with SwellG that making such a decision should not be made without figuring out the costs and finding ways to minimize those costs. I know there are statistics, but a far worse stigma can be created for all men and boys by the way we choose to broach to subject.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 10:14 am
The Daring One Says:
Steve - it’s like all the restrooms that only have changing tables in the women’s. That’s a tough one. You should definitely talk to them about that.
Spurred on by Carrie, Kristen and SwellG, I’d really like to hear people’s thoughts on how to raise our young men as loving, nurturers and be careful without planting in their minds that we think they are either destined to be molesters or that they need to steer clear of working with children completely.
Arrggg! This is a hard topic.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 10:21 am
Mir Says:
Kathryn, I recently discovered some friends of mine loathe using a babysitter who can’t drive, because the wife is often tired when they get home and the husband (a cop!) feels it’s inappropriate for him to drive the sitter home himself. I think it’s a sad, sad commentary on our society that people have to worry about this stuff.
Anyway, the real comment I wanted to make was this: My daughter had a male teacher last year who was incredible, and I trusted him completely. I didn’t expect to feel so positively towards him, given my suspicious nature (ha!), but it was a wonderful experience all around. He was also very careful never to be alone with the kids, etc. That experience really helped me to feel more secure about the boundaries I do have, and less like I’m just a neurotic man-hater. Heh.
My ex continues to allow men to watch our children despite my repeated pleas that this never be the case. He thinks I’m silly, and it’s not as though I can take him back to court and demand that the judge agree that men shouldn’t babysit our kids. But you can bet your last dollar that my kids are well-versed in what’s okay and what’s not. I’m glad your husband is in agreement with you on this one, because it’s a horrible feeling to lose that control to someone whose goal is to “prove” that you’re being silly.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 10:24 am
Steve Says:
Re: #25. Exactly! I’ve changed diapers on the floor lots of times. Usually I brought a blanket in their diaper bag, but even then I could tell the kids hated it.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 10:32 am
a fan Says:
swellg and kirsten summed up my thoughts. as a woman, i’m offended at the no male caregivers rule. statistics also show that it’s more likely someone within the family than someone unknown… does that mean your husband, brothers, father, father-in-law, et cetera are exempt from watching the kids? i totally agree with being upset about the friend in there, but even as the mother of two little girls, i can’t see making an across the board “no males” rule.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 10:53 am
jodijean Says:
i think it’s important to keep ourselves safe, and our children safe. its not being racist or sexist or any other “ist”, it’s being cautious and careful.
shannon over at rocks in my dryer said this quote the other day and i think it applies here, even though she was talking about the issue of modesty.
“Imagine, for a moment, that I choose not to wear my seat belt. I know that there are drunk and/or careless drivers on the road, but I trust my own ability to be a good driver. Now imagine,
horribly, that when I am not wearing my seatbelt, I am killed by a drunk driver. Would a seat belt have saved my life? We’ll never know. Is the drunk driver 100% responsible, for his criminal behavior? Absolutely. But was I wise to forego the seatbelt? No.”
sure we cannot make choices for others, but that doesn’t mean that we have to give up control of our own choices. thats the only thing we have in life is our agency.
good for you kathryn.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 11:02 am
Traci Says:
Way to tackle a hugely tough topic! I especially appreciated your comment and the link to thepost about secrets - I’ve had two dear friends suffer from keeping secrets and/or being maligned when they finally told the secrets. They were the ones blamed for “ruining the family” by telling what happened - people were more upset that it “got out” than that is happened! But both have also said that telling was infinitely less painful than keeping it to themselves. Secrets do hurt.
Also - your no males policy is smart parenting. I do look forward to further conversations about teaching boys to nurture…
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
bek Says:
We don’t have a policy like this, but it hasn’t been an issue yet.
My daughter was molested at preschool by another child…a boy…who was also being abused at home. This school is run by a university and has long been considered one of the best in the country. It has observation windows in every room (it is a teaching tool for other people at the university) and all female teachers who teach two at a time. It can happen any time, any where. Even with the best protection.
The key is having the understanding with your children that they know what is appropriate and what isn’t. They need to know what to tell you about and what to do. My daughter finally talked to me about what was happening and we were able to catch it early. I feel this is the key here….not just having only girls watching them. Girls have boyfriends that come over when you don’t know about it. Their friends have brothers that will be home when they go over to play. KWIM?
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
tftcarrie Says:
jodijean,
While I appreciate the analogy you shared, I think in this case we have to be careful that our choices are more like putting on our seatbelt and less like deciding to never, ever drive a car. While never getting in a car brings down the chances of getting killed by a drunk driver even more than just wearing a seatbelt, I think most of us would agree that the costs of not driving a car outweigh the increase in “safety”.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
EmLouisa Says:
We have a no male babysitters policy at our house too. I totally agree with you on this whole thing.
The one thing that sticks out in my mind though is that there really isn’t anyone hired FOR CHILDCARE. If they are taking turns and someone hates watching kids they are most likely not going to be a good sitter. They will probably snap at your kids, make fun of them, etc. ESPECIALLY if their half naked friend is in the room. Like they want to be NICE to the kid and fear looking uncool.
Anyway, there is my 2 cents. I am glad you are open with Laylee about it. I was abused as a child and never felt like I could tell anyone.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Lauren Says:
I think what this post is about more than anything else is trusting *your* gut and *your* convictions. From the looks of these comments, some share those same convictions, others don’t, but I don’t think anyone can fault you for knowing why you’ve taken the stand you have, being able to articulate those reasons, and working tooth and nail to do what you and Dan feel are right for your two Sugs. Good for you, lady.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
chris Says:
I agree with you.
no male babysitters here
no sleepovers either
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Sarah Says:
thanks for the info. thankfully even though my gym occasionally has men watching the kids, there are always two employees in there. always.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
Antique Mommy Says:
You make some very salient points. Someone recommended a young boy as a babysitter and for the very same reasons, I never called him. I keep reminding myself that I don’t have to defend or explain my choices to others, especially where it involves my baby. It turns out that “because I said so” is valid and is enough.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Amber Says:
I don’t think you’re overreacting at all. I hold the same opinion as you and won’t let teen-age boys watch my children. I don’t know if it’s the media or just the Internet that has brought out all the pervs but I think it has brought a whole new awareness to just how prevalent child molestation really is.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Amanda Says:
We have used male baby sitters in the past simply because there was a lack of female baby sitters available to us. We struggled with this decision, but trusted these boys. They have done a wonderful job and the only problem we have had is one of them being on the computer while our kids were still awake. I fixed that problem ASAP. I don’t pay a babysitter to be on the computer, even if my kids are asleep. But after reading your post I have decided that my children are more important than the date night my husband and I might miss because we cannot find a female babysitter. I would rather be safe than sorry. I can’t imagine having to deal with a sitiuation that could have been prevented. I know as a parent we cannot protect our children from everything, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be proactive in our efforts at protecting them.
Thanks for bringing such an important topic to light.
As far as teaching our sons to be good fathers and caregivers, I believe that begins at home. Our children must learn from the examples of their parents and relatives. Unfortunately in our society today the example that the kids are getting is not exactly a positive one though. This is a tough one.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
KYouell Says:
I’m not sure how I feel about the whole “no male sitters” thing, but I certainly appreciate you getting me thinking!
As I’ve mentioned before (endlessly, I know, but it’s pertinent this time), my son has Down syndrome. We have a nice local agency that can help to provide services for him, so when he was just a few months old we had an intake meeting with their nurse. Man, was she good. She explained to me that disabled children, especially developmentally disabled children, are seen as easy targets and much more likely to be molested than typical children (PC speak for “normal” kids).
She said that the best thing that I could do to protect my son is to make sure he knows all the proper terms for body parts, both male and female. I don’t know her source, but she said that studies have shown that if a child says, “That’s a penis,” or “Don’t touch my penis,” then the molester will stop and find another victim. Apparently children who aren’t afraid to say the proper terms are perceived as also not afraid to tell that someone touched them.
Her second suggestion was to make sure it was clear to him that anyone besides his regular caregivers (Mom, Dad and the occasional Grandma) must have permission from these trusted people before he can even be held by them, let alone have his diaper changed or anything else. Her point was the very friendly child that reaches out to strangers is also seen as an easy target. So even as a baby I started telling him, “Mom says it’s ok for the doctor to take a look at you,” and “Mom is right here so this is ok.”
Maybe not an answer to the debate at hand, but more weapons in the keeping-our-kids-safe arsenal.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Goslyn Says:
Kathryn, this is a really interesting post, and you’ve got a great discussion going here. While you are right that the majority of pedophiles are men … not all are.
As a survivor of sexual abuse - at hand of a woman - I would say you need to be extremely careful about anyone you leave your children with.
For me, my molestor was the director of my daycare. She and other used the daycare as a place to produce photographs for a child p*rn*graphy ring.
So, just eliminating boys and men as childcare providers is clearly not enough.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t leave your kids with trusted babysitters, but you should know that just because the babysitter is female doesn’t mean your child is safe from molestation.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Goslyn Says:
PS - I had an excellent male teenaged babysitter when I was about 7. He never did anything inappropriate. Ever.
Well, he told me a scary ghost story one time.
That said, I don’t think I’d leave my kids alone with a teenage boy, either.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
jeana Says:
I have to disagree with tftcarrie. I think “not driving the car at all” would be more like not leaving your kids with a babysitter at all.
I should admit, though, that I’m pretty close to that. I am very selective of who is allowed to watch my kids and, as a result, they are not away from me very often at all. When they are it’s usually they’re dad or specific family members. I have gotten a little more liberal as they get older and can speak up for themselves and each other more.
I’m with Chris–we’ve avoided sleepovers as well for the same type of reasons, as I wrote recently.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 6:49 pm
bowersita Says:
As a former DCFS worker, it is wise to not trust back ground checks especially if the workers are younger. Juvenile court records are confidential and sealed, so records for anyone under 18 or any crimes committed before someone is 18 will not show up on back ground checks. It is wise to be very cautious, there are more unsafe people out there than anyone really wants to think about. While not being a parent yet myself, the best thing I would recommend is get to know the people who are involved in your children’s lives, friends parent’s etc. Follow your gut, and above all teach your children about these issues and what to do if they feel uncomfortable or heaven forbid something does happen. They more aware they are and feeling safe to talk about these things they more they can be protected. Sex offenders have to register their addresses, there are online websites where you can look up who lives in your neighborhood or near your children’s schools. As a school counselor much of my job is to meet one on one with students. While the concern is very understandable it is hard to think that even these types of situations can be viewed in a skeptical light.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Not Too Pensive Says:
I’m with ya’, Daring, and I’m a man.
I will say that I did some “baby-sitting” as a teenager. At the age of 17, I was called upon a few times by a friend of the family to take care of 2-4 12-13 year old boys while the parents were at a football game. They didn’t want to give their kids a “sitter”, and instead insisted I was coming over to “watch the game” with them (the parents and their friends had several football tickets) and basically was charged with making sure they didn’t tear up the house too much. I knew the kids, the parents knew my mom quite well, and it seemed more or less natural. Besides, I got free pizza…
I think what I did was ok, and if I had a son I’d allow him to do it - given that I knew everyone involved and he would only be looking after members of the same sex of reasonable age. That said, i wasn’t really “baby sitting”, more like “protecting the valuables of the home and making sure no one strangled anyone else” while watching a football game.
But, kids any younger than that, or girls… no. I don’t think it would’ve been a good idea. Especially when they’re practically unknown to the family. You’re right on target, Daring, right on.
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Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
No Cool Story Says:
In this day and age, it is just not a good idea.
Good for you DYM. Like my mom would say “you have to do what you have to do” (guess it sounds better in Spanish). I don’t care being accused of sexism or paranoia. Better safe than sorry. Like everyone else said, if childcare is not a priority for them, that’s fine, it’s my priority.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
No Cool Story Says:
So my post had a link, but it was eaten.
Here it is again:
Hillsboro fitness worker guilty of abuse
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Karen Says:
Kathryn, I think you’re dead-on in every point you make.
Child molesters are not the just sick weirdo hiding behind the bushes at the playground. They’re the people you know in your every day life. That’s just the plain truth.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 8:28 pm
Sketchy Says:
When I was in HS I babysat for a family, they also had a friend of theirs son babysit occasionally. Nicest kid. But one time, I don’t know what came over him and I doubt he does either. He molested one of their daughters.
I have a cousin that found himself in a similar situation (with less serious “touching”), but still.
While there is no way I would make that statement apply to all teenage boys across the board, I will not risk it. The hormones and the problems of the age are huge. I will not sacrifice my children on the alter of political correctness. I also will not put those boys into a situation where they might be tempted past their abilities to resist.
Now I have 3 sons, will the older babysit the younger children? Yes. I know them, I know them inside and out. But will I let a male teenager watch my children now? Absolutely not. I cannot say the same of other peoples children. I also will not allow my boys to babysit for other families. It is not worth the risk.
As for how they will learn to parent, they will learn it from their parents. They will learn it from us. It is not like they live in a vaccuum and will be plopped from innerspace into a family of 4 children under 5. They are learning parenting every day of their lives (scary sometimes, but true). They have plenty of opportunities to practise their “parenting” as they interact with their siblings and other children in their lives.
And frankly if I was as a mother the kind of babysitter I was, I’d say my kids were in a bit of trouble…particularly as I got older and a little sick of the whole thing.
As a quick side note, I have no problem driving the sitters! That’s just my job.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
T Says:
I do not trust men in childcare postions.
I was molested repeatedly by a male babysitter who was also a cousin. My own experiences influence my choices, but it is interesting to see that some others make the same choices. I will feel less like I have to explain myself now.
[Reply]
Posted on September 7th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
adwina-insparenting.com Says:
Dear Kathryn,
You’ve got a great story here. This post has made you be chosen as the Blog of the Week.
Congratulations, DYM :).
Love,
Adwina
[Reply]
Posted on September 8th, 2006 at 1:31 am
grammyelin Says:
Sweetheart, you are wise to talk with your children and educate them on their own rights. After that, all you can do is trust your convictions, pray hard, follow the direction of the spirit and continue to communicate well with your children.
Back “in the day” we had 3 boy babysitters.
Clint was a great kid from a good family, whom we knew well. The few times we had him over, he did a great job.
We had Malcom once. I think you kids had a good time, but the waterfight in the house - along with mass destruction of our home and property was a good enough reason to never use him again.
The third was reccommended highly by his Mom. “He’s a great babysitter and loves little children. We live so close, you would never have to drive him. You would be so happy if you would use him.” But I just never felt good about him and NEVER called him. What his Mom neglected to tell me, was that he was on probabtion for child sexual abuse and had a room full of pornography. My neighbor did hire him and came home to find him in bed with his 3 year old daughter. I was so thankful that I didn’t trust his mother and put you all at risk.
We did have a couple of incidents where girl sitters weren’t that hot, (not that serious, just not ones you’d like to invite back again) but 2 out of 50 is a much better track record than 2 out of 3. So given my personal experience with boy babysitters, I would reccommend against it. It is a bigger risk. Mostly though, I would go back to the “pray hard and follow the spirit” advice.
[Reply]
Posted on September 8th, 2006 at 7:26 am
Mary Tsao Says:
Interesing post and discussion. The comments bring up a lot of good points, too.
I’m playing devil’s advocate today on BlogHer and using your post as a springboard to a discussion of disallowing all men (relatives, acquaintances, and strangers) alone with our children. It’s very typical that we hear stories of uncles and cousins molesting kids. Is it possible we should be afraid of all men, and not just teenage boys and strangers?
I don’t have the answer, but I’m interested to see what others think.
[Reply]
Posted on September 8th, 2006 at 11:56 am
JKS Says:
I just joined a gym. I was dropping off my 8,6, & 2 year olds until school started. Now its just the 2 year old. It really helps to have the older children there because you feel like they can watch out for each other.
My gym has two childcare workers who just do the childcare. They are moms with their own kid who is there with them. Try suggesting that to your gym! The moms work 4 hour shifts.
Our gym has a large window that is in a main area. I do have to walk over there to see my kids, but since there are people walking back and forth I feel like it is pretty safe (there is a bathroom though).
I would feel slightly uncomfortable with a male caregiver. I would first off be surprised!
I am trying to be VERY friendly and talkative with the two daycare workers who are there. I think it is important to:
1. Get to know them
2. Help them feel happy in their job, adult conversation, like they have friends to speak to, etc.
3. Let them know I appreciate what they do
I hope that by doing this I will know better if my child is in a good situation, and also help the daycare worker be happy in her job taking care of several children, since it is hard work!
As for normal babysitters, we simply rarely get anyone at all. There are male family members I don’t trust, and some I do, but I rarely use any of them anyway since they live in different states.
[Reply]
Posted on September 8th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Pieces Says:
I agree 100% with what you have said and I’m looking forward to checking out that book. Interestingly, years ago, after I told my husband that I don’t want any men babysitting our children, HE is the one that said that our son should never babysit either–because of the risk of accusations. It is for everyone’s protection.
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Posted on September 8th, 2006 at 4:05 pm
Kristi Says:
I can’t agree here. If you are not comfortable with males you know watching your children, how can you be comfortable with strangers watching them?
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Posted on September 9th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
The Daring One Says:
I’m not entirely comfortable with strangers watching my kids. It freaks me out. That said, if they have to be left with a stranger, I’d prefer a female to a male. If they have to be left with a friend, I’d prefer a female friend to a male friend. I know many people don’t agree with this family decision.
[Reply]
Posted on September 9th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
D. Fletcher Says:
My response is at my blog.
http://invisiblog.wordpress.com/
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Posted on September 11th, 2006 at 8:29 am
tftcarrie Says:
Sorry I haven’t been able to get back to this discussion. I haven’t even been able to keep up on the post I made at my own blog regarding this topic.
I have come to the decision that any rule you make regarding this issue is somewhat arbitrary. There is always a more encompassing rule that would be “safer”, but I think the more emcompassing the rule, the more implications it has on your children, the family, the community and even the world. I believe there does come a point where it is not “better to be safe than sorry.” The decision is so personal–you need to weigh the make-up of your family and the personal experiences you have had regarding molestation (ie: stories you’ve heard, friends or family members dealing with such issues) and decide how you will let that effect your family. I think it is important to realize that not everyone will come up with the same answer.
Doing everything in your power to protect your children from all danger does not make a “smart parent”. It is the hard pondering of such issues that makes a “smart parent” regardless of the decision in the end.
Thanks for bringing this topic to everyone’s attention. And once again for the record, I totally agree with what you did at the gym. I would have done the exact same thing - except I wouldn’t have been able to say - “we have this family policy”. But I would have taken action.
After a weekend of discussing this with my husband, we have decided to make our family rule as no teenage male babysitters. Everything else will be decided on a case by case basis. It’s completely arbitrary (as I feel all rules in this matter are) but comes based on our family experience a bad past experience of some old friends.
It sort of seems like most of these rules are made so we as parents can feel like we have some sort of control over a really scary thing that is for the most part uncontrollable (unless you never let your children leave your side).
That’s it. Still mostly scattered on this one. And our rule could change tomorrow.
[Reply]
Posted on September 11th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Lou Says:
I think you are dead on. I have gotten more anxious about leaving my children with people lately because you really just never know. SO many children become victims, it is scary. It seems so prevlent that I get very overwhelmed thinking about how to keep MY kids safe.
[Reply]
Posted on September 11th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
Kate Says:
I know no-one’s commented on this for a while, but I just read it and I wanted to add my bit. I think the problem is less about gender than age. I wouldn’t let a teenager babysit my little girl, period. I want a mature adult, thank you very much! And if that means sacrificing nights out or paying over the odds that’s fine. This is not so much about fears of abuse, more because I want to know that whoever I leave with M (my baby) won’t lose their head in an emergency or do anything silly or end up getting their friends round to kiss on my couch (and yes, I know that there are responsible teens about, but I’m not willing to risk it - like many of you won’t take the risk with men). i probably have about equal numbers of male and female sitters, but the list is very short, and made up of mainly family and very old friends. I was abused as a child (at church, of all places) and I work with survivors, so I’m ultra picky. I’m also aware that woman abuse too, and so my decision is based on my faith in the person concerned, rather than their gender. Preferably, I want someone who I knew when I was a child, or someone has their own happy, well cared for, children.
That said, I have wonderful, but hugely protective parents (when I visit, my dad still won’t let me out alone after dark!) and I still got abused. I’m not sure what else they could have done to protect me, but I think perhaps if they’d instilled in me a stronger sense of needing to keep myself safe, rather than trying to protect me from every conceivable danger, I might have had more of a chance of evading the guy who molested me.
M can’t talk yet, so there is no chance I’m leaving her with someone I don’t trust implicitly and know personally (I’m exceptionally fortunate to have the family and friends I do). When she gets older she’ll go to nursery, but only if it’s one that’s been highly recommended, and where staff work in pairs (at least). If there are men in those pairs that’s fine, but I don’t think I’d be happy to leave her in the care of very young childcare workers.
In the end, as I think everyone’s recognised, this is an intensely personal decision. Our children are the most precious things we have, and, as long as we have their best interests at heart, we have the right to organise their care exactly as we wish. For me, that means no teenagers, and although I don’t share the views of those of you who won’t have male sitters, I would defend your right to make that choice.
[Reply]
Posted on October 14th, 2006 at 11:27 am
mad man Says:
How about if this was about if a women should’nt be a ceo because women can’t be togh. than what do say. This is so closed minded. I am a male sitter in training. You all have no respect
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Posted on October 18th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
Annie Says:
How about not going to that gym? If I were uncomfortable at all concerning my child’s safety there is no way I would still go to the gym. What’s more importatnt-your children or getting your workout in?
[Reply]
Posted on November 6th, 2006 at 6:58 am
Oh, for a chance to run again, or Why you should never remodel your entire house at once « Hope is Power Says:
[...] January 15th, 2007 at 9:03 am (Uncategorized) My lower back still hurts every time I wake up and get out of bed. It’s been so long since I did yoga that I can’t even touch my toes anymore. I want to take one of those yoga classes. I don’t trust the child-care at the gyms, so I will have to wait until Kiki is at least in preschool. Even 3 days a week would be great. [...]
Posted on January 15th, 2007 at 9:06 am
mad man Says:
I am a male sitter and very upset the sick way you look at males here.This is such narrow group
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Posted on January 15th, 2007 at 9:58 am
The Daring One Says:
I think it’s time I declared this conversation closed. I have not edited or deleted any comments but people keep finding it and joining in the converstaion and I think everything’s been hashed and rehashed.
Is chosing childcare based on gender the perfect solution? No.
Since writing this post, we’ve discontinued use of the gym daycare until we can find other ways to make the situation comfortable to us and them.
I don’t have the answer but I appreciate everyone’s input. It’s caused me t be much more thoughtful in this decision.
Please feel free to send me an email if you’d like the discussion to continue. I may create a new post about it in the future.
[Reply]
Posted on January 15th, 2007 at 11:55 am
The Juggle - WSJ.com : Why are there so few male teachers? Says:
[...] a two-year-old post at the Daring Young Mom blog, in which the mother tells of her familys blanket policy against male caregivers for their children. She wont use male babysitters and wont allow her son to babysit when hes old [...]
Posted on August 18th, 2008 at 6:58 am