Comments on: My Responsibility http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/ On Her Flying Trapeze - Blog of Seattle-Area Mom, Kathryn Young Thompson Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:14:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Natalie http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-101691 Natalie Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:46:21 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-101691 LOL. Being the oldest of 7 and a young mom to 4 children 4 and under planning on having as many as God allows, I can laugh as I remember as a young child, seeing an episode of Captain Planet. We weren't allowed to watch that show for some reason or another, but I clearly remember the one time I did and it still cracks me up. The Planeteers(sp?) were gazing into the future somehow and saw that one of them had 6 kids!!! It was literally the end of the planet, bc this man's 6 kids were consuming all our resources! The planeteers were furious and went on to explain to the CHILDREN watching the show that to have more than 2 was dangerous for our planet! Wow. My fave bumper sticker? "Birth Control is for Sissies!" In jest of course, bc there are MANY people out there I do not want to see reproducing...sorry was that ugly? LOL. Being the oldest of 7 and a young mom to 4 children 4 and under planning on having as many as God allows, I can laugh as I remember as a young child, seeing an episode of Captain Planet.
We weren’t allowed to watch that show for some reason or another, but I clearly remember the one time I did and it still cracks me up.
The Planeteers(sp?) were gazing into the future somehow and saw that one of them had 6 kids!!!
It was literally the end of the planet, bc this man’s 6 kids were consuming all our resources! The planeteers were furious and went on to explain to the CHILDREN watching the show that to have more than 2 was dangerous for our planet!
Wow.
My fave bumper sticker? “Birth Control is for Sissies!”
In jest of course, bc there are MANY people out there I do not want to see reproducing…sorry was that ugly?

]]> By: MamaToo http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-99236 MamaToo Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:14:10 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-99236 Good to hear (from a more recent post) that you decided to wait to bring it up. That seems wise and neighborly. Perhaps they'll see your life & family, and change their mind (not only about posting the sign, but the view in itself). I appreciate the way your post, and decisions, have been gracious toward your neighbors. Your children are learning from your example, and that is certainly something that will benefit future generations of our planet! :) Good to hear (from a more recent post) that you decided to wait to bring it up. That seems wise and neighborly. Perhaps they’ll see your life & family, and change their mind (not only about posting the sign, but the view in itself).
I appreciate the way your post, and decisions, have been gracious toward your neighbors. Your children are learning from your example, and that is certainly something that will benefit future generations of our planet!
:)

]]> By: Amy W http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-96783 Amy W Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:15:54 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-96783 First (coming from a librarian here): They are a bookstore - have they read Margaret Haddix's Among the Hidden? (for you non-children's lit. readers, it's a book based in a 2 children per couple only society :) Second: My DH said we could only have 2 kids, 'cause 3 fight over the who gets the windows in the backseat. We ended up with three. But that third one was 15 years after the first two. All fun aside - honestly, if you can care for them, have them. If you can't care for them then don't. First (coming from a librarian here):
They are a bookstore – have they read Margaret Haddix’s Among the Hidden? (for you non-children’s lit. readers, it’s a book based in a 2 children per couple only society :)

Second:
My DH said we could only have 2 kids, ’cause 3 fight over the who gets the windows in the backseat. We ended up with three. But that third one was 15 years after the first two.

All fun aside – honestly, if you can care for them, have them. If you can’t care for them then don’t.

]]> By: jonb http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-96609 jonb Wed, 10 Oct 2007 05:21:09 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-96609 I agree with Lauxa. Also, I'm not so sure what's so shocking about somebody stating their beliefs and opinions in the form of a bumper sticker. We see it every day, from politics to religion to what radio-stations we listen to. Perhaps it's that it's not on a bumper, but rather a small-business's storefront? It may not be in the business's best interest to post such a statement, but they clearly feel strongly enough about the issue to risk losing customers because of it. Which--if you ask me--shows how passionate they are about the subject. You should most certainly go in and talk to them. After all, that's why they have the sticker there to begin with--to spark debate. Just be ready to do just that, as I'm sure they're prepared for one. I agree with Lauxa. Also, I’m not so sure what’s so shocking about somebody stating their beliefs and opinions in the form of a bumper sticker. We see it every day, from politics to religion to what radio-stations we listen to. Perhaps it’s that it’s not on a bumper, but rather a small-business’s storefront? It may not be in the business’s best interest to post such a statement, but they clearly feel strongly enough about the issue to risk losing customers because of it. Which–if you ask me–shows how passionate they are about the subject.

You should most certainly go in and talk to them. After all, that’s why they have the sticker there to begin with–to spark debate. Just be ready to do just that, as I’m sure they’re prepared for one.

]]> By: Lauxa http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-96579 Lauxa Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:50:29 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-96579 Personally, I think population expansion is one of the biggest problems facing our planet. Either we'll figure out how to handle it or we'll end up with famines and plagues to force the issue. If we had our current level of technology and infrastructure with a tenth of the current population we'd have utopia. On the other hand, the more people we have the more stuff we can do as a planet. And maybe utopia would be boring. I liked Schnozz's comment on how people judging each other is inevitable. I think that if they prominately post an opinion on a controversial issue, this is an invitation to debate. A friendly heated political debate is one of the great joys of life, in my opinion... Personally, I think population expansion is one of the biggest problems facing our planet. Either we’ll figure out how to handle it or we’ll end up with famines and plagues to force the issue. If we had our current level of technology and infrastructure with a tenth of the current population we’d have utopia.

On the other hand, the more people we have the more stuff we can do as a planet. And maybe utopia would be boring.

I liked Schnozz’s comment on how people judging each other is inevitable. I think that if they prominately post an opinion on a controversial issue, this is an invitation to debate. A friendly heated political debate is one of the great joys of life, in my opinion…

]]> By: Kati http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-96417 Kati Tue, 09 Oct 2007 05:00:54 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-96417 Oddly enough I saw that sign on the bookstore for the first time yesterday on the way to music class. I had to do a double take and make sure it said what I think it did. Yep, it did! And yes I was surprised and distrubed. I'll be interested to hear what kind of response you get from them! Oddly enough I saw that sign on the bookstore for the first time yesterday on the way to music class. I had to do a double take and make sure it said what I think it did. Yep, it did! And yes I was surprised and distrubed. I’ll be interested to hear what kind of response you get from them!

]]> By: What's the limit? http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-96146 What's the limit? Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:00:25 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-96146 I hate stepping on people's toes, but here goes: For all the people who insist that there's no risk of overpopulation, do you really believe that there's no limit? How many people can the earth hold? 10 billion? 100 billion? 1 trillion? 100 trillion? At some point there must be a limit. The limit is less dictated by the number of poeple than by the amount of resources they use. Yes, we've gotten better at getting resources out of the planet, but we're also digging deeper and spending more resources to get those resources (so the net gain is getting less and less). In addition, the byproducts of using those resources are overwhelming the reserve capacity of our planet to handle them (carbon dioxide, heat, pollution, etc.). So while the number of people on this planet may not physically take up a huge chunk of the land mass on the planet, in order for those people to survive they need large amounts of good farming land to be fed. I did find one estimate of 1.2 acres of arable land per person the minimum to maintain adequate nutrition, so the family of four living on 1/4 acre would also require 5 additional acres for food, thus bumping up the amount of land required from 650,000 mi^2 to 13.6 million square miles. In addition, each person needs a minimum of 700 gallons of water per day for all their needs (presumably including growing food, we're using more like 1450 gal/day now), so any of this land without adequate fresh water supply isn't usable. Yes, right now we're maintaining our comfy lifestyle by having lots of extra room but also by living of the backs of third world countries. Many of the current and future conflicts are driven by lack of resources or trying to get more resources. Remember thet while the US only accounts for a tiny bit of the world's population, we account for a huge chunk of the world's resource use, so 1 US person uses the resources of 30 or so third world people. The idea that we should be free to have kids with no consequences is just like running up your credit card: eventually the bill will come due. Will you be able to look your kids in the eye and say you did everything you could so they would have a good future? Sorry, I was getting a little hot under the collar there, but I can't abide people being willfully ignorant. If you know what you're getting yourself into, that's fine, but go in with your eyes open for God's sake. If you really want to learn something rather than listen to idiots like me blather on about stuff we only tangentially know, read the book called _Collapse_ by Jared Diamond, it's entertaining (ever wonder what happened to the residents of Easter Island or the Anasazi?) and eye-opening. Also, in the end, it gives hope. (I put a link to it at Amazon as my website to make finding it easy.) Anyways, that said, it's true that unless you engage with the shopkeeps you don't know if they're judging you, and you may be just judging them. For all you know, they enter by the back door and unlock the front from the inside and neevr notice the sticker someone put on the door. Or maybe they're Nazis. Or maybe they're frustrated by the problems they see in the world. Or maybe they have six kids and are being ironic (or wish they had stopped earlier). Until you talk to them, you don't know. As bookstore owners, they probably do want you to exercise your free speech. Use it. I hate stepping on people’s toes, but here goes:
For all the people who insist that there’s no risk of overpopulation, do you really believe that there’s no limit? How many people can the earth hold? 10 billion? 100 billion? 1 trillion? 100 trillion? At some point there must be a limit.
The limit is less dictated by the number of poeple than by the amount of resources they use. Yes, we’ve gotten better at getting resources out of the planet, but we’re also digging deeper and spending more resources to get those resources (so the net gain is getting less and less). In addition, the byproducts of using those resources are overwhelming the reserve capacity of our planet to handle them (carbon dioxide, heat, pollution, etc.).
So while the number of people on this planet may not physically take up a huge chunk of the land mass on the planet, in order for those people to survive they need large amounts of good farming land to be fed. I did find one estimate of 1.2 acres of arable land per person the minimum to maintain adequate nutrition, so the family of four living on 1/4 acre would also require 5 additional acres for food, thus bumping up the amount of land required from 650,000 mi^2 to 13.6 million square miles. In addition, each person needs a minimum of 700 gallons of water per day for all their needs (presumably including growing food, we’re using more like 1450 gal/day now), so any of this land without adequate fresh water supply isn’t usable.
Yes, right now we’re maintaining our comfy lifestyle by having lots of extra room but also by living of the backs of third world countries. Many of the current and future conflicts are driven by lack of resources or trying to get more resources. Remember thet while the US only accounts for a tiny bit of the world’s population, we account for a huge chunk of the world’s resource use, so 1 US person uses the resources of 30 or so third world people.
The idea that we should be free to have kids with no consequences is just like running up your credit card: eventually the bill will come due. Will you be able to look your kids in the eye and say you did everything you could so they would have a good future?

Sorry, I was getting a little hot under the collar there, but I can’t abide people being willfully ignorant. If you know what you’re getting yourself into, that’s fine, but go in with your eyes open for God’s sake.

If you really want to learn something rather than listen to idiots like me blather on about stuff we only tangentially know, read the book called _Collapse_ by Jared Diamond, it’s entertaining (ever wonder what happened to the residents of Easter Island or the Anasazi?) and eye-opening. Also, in the end, it gives hope. (I put a link to it at Amazon as my website to make finding it easy.)

Anyways, that said, it’s true that unless you engage with the shopkeeps you don’t know if they’re judging you, and you may be just judging them. For all you know, they enter by the back door and unlock the front from the inside and neevr notice the sticker someone put on the door. Or maybe they’re Nazis. Or maybe they’re frustrated by the problems they see in the world. Or maybe they have six kids and are being ironic (or wish they had stopped earlier). Until you talk to them, you don’t know. As bookstore owners, they probably do want you to exercise your free speech. Use it.

]]> By: The Daring One http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-96118 The Daring One Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:47:12 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-96118 Thanks everyone. There's too much here to adequately respond to everyone and all your great points. The net result of the discussion is that I feel much more chilled out about things. I do plan on continuing to shop there but I will write a letter to the owners, which I will not deliver, to help get my thoughts straight and when the time feels right I will bring it up. Some of you gave GREAT ideas of what to say in a casual way just to see if I'm welcome in the store after I have my next kid and to let them know that there are people who are uncomfortable with it. I do fully understand that they have freedom of speech and belief and I'm grateful we all do. But like some of you have said, if they didn't want me to exercise my freedom of speech and speak to them about it, they shouldn't have put their freedom of speech on the front door of their store. I'll let you know how things go. Thanks for the great discussion! Thanks everyone. There’s too much here to adequately respond to everyone and all your great points. The net result of the discussion is that I feel much more chilled out about things. I do plan on continuing to shop there but I will write a letter to the owners, which I will not deliver, to help get my thoughts straight and when the time feels right I will bring it up. Some of you gave GREAT ideas of what to say in a casual way just to see if I’m welcome in the store after I have my next kid and to let them know that there are people who are uncomfortable with it. I do fully understand that they have freedom of speech and belief and I’m grateful we all do. But like some of you have said, if they didn’t want me to exercise my freedom of speech and speak to them about it, they shouldn’t have put their freedom of speech on the front door of their store.

I’ll let you know how things go. Thanks for the great discussion!

]]> By: Irene http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-96067 Irene Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:42:53 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-96067 I very much think like you do on this. However, I wouldn' shop from someone with whom I do not share similar views, especially if they are too eager to publicize their opinions. I might try a conversation with them on the matter, see how militant they are. If they insisted, I'd state my opinion, wait to see what they do, then if they insist look for another bookshop. I find it unethical that all this pressure is put upon European, and Christian populations whereas people who don't have as many means to support themselves are left to produce scores of offspring. It is suicidal that people across Europe and the US are actually embracing these ideas. I very much think like you do on this. However, I wouldn’ shop from someone with whom I do not share similar views, especially if they are too eager to publicize their opinions. I might try a conversation with them on the matter, see how militant they are. If they insisted, I’d state my opinion, wait to see what they do, then if they insist look for another bookshop.
I find it unethical that all this pressure is put upon European, and Christian populations whereas people who don’t have as many means to support themselves are left to produce scores of offspring. It is suicidal that people across Europe and the US are actually embracing these ideas.

]]> By: Lesley http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/comment-page-2/#comment-95976 Lesley Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:58:29 +0000 http://www.daringyoungmom.com/2007/10/04/my-responsibility/#comment-95976 I have not read all the comment, there were wayyyy to many for my buckety brain to handle. ;0) I am mom of 4 and if I had stopped at two many people, who love my kiddos, would be missing out on knowing them. I can not imagine my life without ALL my kids and I would hope parents everywhere would feel the same way. I wonder how many kids the store owner has? How many siblings?? How many grandkids? ect..... I have not read all the comment, there were wayyyy to many for my buckety brain to handle. ;0) I am mom of 4 and if I had stopped at two many people, who love my kiddos, would be missing out on knowing them. I can not imagine my life without ALL my kids and I would hope parents everywhere would feel the same way.
I wonder how many kids the store owner has? How many siblings?? How many grandkids? ect…..

]]>